28 May 2014, Treaty Gate's John Ansell Debates Joe Trinder From Mana, The Vinny Eastwood "Robusta" Debate. SPECIAL DOUBLE EPISODE!

28/5/2014

Treaty Gate's JOHN ANSELL Debates JOE TRINDER From MANA, The Vinny Eastwood Show "Robusta" Debate. SPECIAL DOUBLE EPISODE!

John Ansell http://www.treatygate.org.nz
Creator of the Treaty gate blog and former ad man John Ansell has come off the back of a shameful interview on Maori television where he was shouted down by both his opponent and the interviewer, it's time to have a proper debate and clear the air.

Joe Trinder https://www.facebook.com/joe.trinder
Member of the MANA party and former NZ Navy, Joe has strong views about how Maori are being treated, objects to racism and doesn't agree that every treaty settlement is an attack on mainstream New Zealanders.

Video versions of our "robusta debate" are up on my youtube channel now! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHjn3zpTlZo
There's also parts 1/16 on a playlist if people can't watch 3.5 hours all at once!
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLit28vmG6icTlXoGLllU63UjdLQazRIvP

Special Commercial Free RAW Version.
To avoid glitches right click on "download file" click "save file as" or "save link as"

ansell_trinder_debate_raw.mp3
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Radio Edited Versions

part_1_28_may_john_ansell_joe_trinder_robusta_debate_vinny_eastwood_show_2014.mp3
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part_2_28_may_john_ansell_joe_trinder_robusta_debate_vinny_eastwood_show_2014.mp3
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hour_1_28_may_john_ansell_joe_trinder_robusta_debate_vinny_eastwood_show_2014.mp3
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hour_2_28_may_john_ansell_joe_trinder_robusta_debate_vinny_eastwood_show_2014.mp3
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hour_3_28_may_john_ansell_joe_trinder_robusta_debate_vinny_eastwood_show_2014.mp3
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hour_4_28_may_john_ansell_joe_trinder_robusta_debate_vinny_eastwood_show_2014.mp3
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4 Comments

Stephen Blackheath

30/5/2014 12:50:39 am

The colonial/race debate as we see constantly played out in New Zealand is a classic divide-and-rule tactic, the speciality of the British Empire, of which New Zealand is a remnant.

Unfortunately I don't have the resources to check the facts presented, so I can only speak generally.

The privilege of the white side allows it to come across as Mr. Reasonable, while defending conquest and dispossession. By "privilege" I am referring to the luxury of being automatically right, due to your ideas enjoying centuries of ideological hegemony. If the marginalized minority speaks up about their mistreatment, then they are whining.

This dynamic, and the style of argument used, are described nicely at http://www.derailingfordummies.com/

With this "derailing" method, it only takes a subtle twisting of history and the white man is a great guy. NZ history is clearly highly politicized, so finding the facts is not easy. However, we should try very hard to do this, because a lot of people would like to go with historical amnesia, which only serves injustice: I am convinced that, while we don't like overt racism here, there is a right colour and a wrong colour in this country, and the Maoris are the wrong colour.

The idea of pre-Maori people who were conquered by the Maoris is highly political - a sort of moral relativism that can magically justify any wrongdoing. In the case of the Moriori, it turns out to be a politically motivated fiction (if mainstream historians are right). As for the Celt theory, I have no idea.

Of course the government encourages a "treaty industry". They can dupe Maoris into looking like opportunists. The government doesn't care how much of other people's (taxpayers) money it wastes as long as its agenda of control is served. The treaty claim over the radio spectrum by one of these dupes happened decades ago and has been thrashed ever since. That's how divide-and-conquer propaganda works.

I felt that John typified the "Mr. Reasonable" derailer, and that Joe did not understand some of the important points about how empires work, which would have enabled him to argue better.

My view is that after centuries of feudalism, the British are a slave race. All they know is dominance, slavery and kleptocracy, and freedom is beyond them. It was inevitable that they would do the same thing to Maori that was done to them, and it continues today.

Unfortunately we are doomed to repeat these pointless arguments until people snap out of the left-right paradigm, and that is not expected to happen any time soon.

I speak as a descendant of one of those people who arrived on the HMS Arab at Petone in 1842.

John Insley

18/6/2014 03:01:11 am

Hi Stephen.
To understand fully the plight of the Maori presently one may need to refer back to beginning of western civilization 350 ce to the present.There were three groups who were identified as rightful heirs,the Church (Jews and Christians),Byzantine and Islamic societies and an additional group the germanic who were claimants and lived outside the boundaries of the Roman empire but who claimed heritage via their "civilized" members who were brilliant adherents to the empire eventually rising to the elite class of millitary emperorship the first of these being Julius Caesar.
Tacitus described the uncivilized members of that Germanic group as the great prose writers of the union wrote of the Maori.back in the day.
Western civilization under Constantine flourished. He oversaw the region of Brittany become an iron and steel making industry due to its prolific resources.The Germanic peoples followed the work and entrenched themselves in to the roughest part of the old empire and the history of Great Britain was begun.
The Celtic Britons, the Pictii and numerous other Caledonian tribes were the next peoples to assimilate and integrate and did not they put up a mighty defence until the light of day was revealed to them.
Feudalism was introduced by William in 1066 and for the first time in history saw the peasant given the right to petition the King.
Unfortunately a large group of the Germanic Anglo Saxon left the region after the defeat of their leader Harold. They set sail for Kiev in a flotilla of approx. 350 ships. Some of these ships were blown back to Scotland and those chose to stay in the highlands.
So these tribes did the hard yards in terms of integration and assimilation and look at how succesfull they had become in times of extreme poverty and hardship.
The Maori in terms cannot be described as living in anything like the conditions our Germanic and British ancestors had to endure.
I believe this history is what John Ansell is basing his argument around.
He speaks of the Maori in similar vein to the Roman Senator Gregory the Great who saw exactly the same potential in the Celtic Britons circa 500-600ce.
Personally I believe the chain of dissent has been dragged on for too long by the Maori radicals and it is time to confront the issue.
Vinny Eastwood has proven himself as possibly one of the greatest moderators on this contentious subject I have ever seen and comparisons with Sir George Grey are not astray in my opinion.
I have studied for years my quadruple ancestry of Maori, Anglo Saxon, French Basque and Nordic.
My New Zealand heritage was formed initially by the French Basque whalers who arrived pre 1840 and settled in Northland and later the region of Tauranga.His name was Pierre Poitier.
Incidentally my Ancestor was courted by George Grey and was one of the last Big Skulls to sign the treaty which was conveyed to Tauranga for the purpose. Our family lands were protected by law assisted by Gov Grey. They remain to this day.
I have lived in Australia for most of my life but am never out of touch with my inheritance.Though nowadays my relatives in New Zealand
are just rugby loving Kiwis there is a minority who have aligned themselves with the activists and have begun to spoil things for the rest of us.
The situation has become so bad I have instructed my children and grandchildren to the impending dangers of physical assault my innocent relatives are receiving from those affected by activism.
It must end sooner than later.

Graeme Faulkner

25/2/2015 07:50:36 am

Looking at the list of signatories at Tauranga I don't see the name Piere Poitier Why is that?

John Insley

18/6/2014 03:05:51 am